Show Notes:
- Public ground transportation rights for people with disabilities – Pacific ADA Center
- Amtrak
- Buses/Rail System
- Ride Shares
- Apps
Transcript:
Sarah: [00:00:00] You’re listening to Good Fit Poor Fit. Our podcast is part of The UD Project, a small business rooted in occupational therapy that looks at how the design of a home environment impacts how well people of different ages and abilities perform everyday activities. We chat about this unique perspective to boost your knowledge and help you consider what can be changed in communities like yours.
Learn more about our work at universaldesign.org.
Hi, Good Fit, Poor Fit listeners. Rebecca and I are with Alexis today, and we are going to talk about something that impacts many of us every day. Transportation. Most of our communities are built and designed for us to get around by a vehicle, which can be limiting to people in a lot of different situations. Disability related or not. Reasons for people not having a vehicle to drive or are unable to drive can [00:01:00] vary widely, but medical conditions like seizures, cognitive abilities, physical abilities, finances, and access to a vehicle that transports mobility equipment are just a few. I have seen a lot of initiatives for more walkable communities, by bikes, motorized mobility devices, and even by foot.
But the infrastructure has to support that for ease and safety. But changing that can take years, if not decades.
Rebecca: Absolutely. I think transportation is the kind of thing that if you don’t experience boundaries around it, you can sometimes take for granted. This can be true if you acquire a disability or if you move to a new place where the transportation system is different than you’re used to. Or even if you just decide to sell your car and start using public transportation more regularly than you have in the past. Anytime we experience a change in our transportation habits, it becomes pretty clear how many barriers exist within these systems. Can you say a bit more about this, Alexis, and why it’s a relevant topic for Good Fit [00:02:00] Poor Fit?
Alexis Girata: Yeah. Like Sarah said before, public transportation plays an important role in many people’s lives. It is a way for people to get to the grocery store, to do their shopping, go to work, get to doctor’s appointments, and how they can hang out with friends. Although it is more common in urban areas, it is just as important to have options available in rural communities.
It can play a large role for many people when deciding where to live because some people don’t have access to a car like Sarah said before, or a driver’s license, so they rely on public transportation to do what they need to do. It can also be more expensive to have a car in some cities because of parking fees.
For example, I worked with an adult with CP, which is Cerebral Palsy for those of you who do not know. He made sure that his home was close to his doctor’s office so he could use his power wheelchair to get to doctor’s appointments if no one was able to drive him. [00:03:00] It can also be a factor when deciding where to go on vacation.
Some people don’t wanna spend the extra money on renting a car. Sarah, did you and Scott have to consider public transportation options when deciding where to live?
Sarah: That is a very good question, and honestly it’s a longer question to answer with a lot of factors. So let me see if I can share a short version so people understand what people have to think about. So listeners, if you don’t know, my husband has a higher level spinal cord injury, which requires him to use a wheelchair full-time. He has two chairs, a manual chair that I can easily fold up and put in the back of our vehicle after he transfers into the driver’s seat. And he has a bigger power chair that can’t fit into a standard vehicle. It weighs a lot. It also needs to go in a more expensive, accessible option with a lift or a ramp. With the different surgeries he’s had in his back over the years, he has lost his [00:04:00] ability to independently break down his manual chair and pull the frame and the wheels into the car. So this factor stopped his ability to go out by himself, even though he could drive the car independently. When we first moved into our area, we did not have an accessible vehicle to transport the big power chair, so he’d kind of used this chair like a little vehicle in our downtown area. He’d ride on sidewalks to go to the grocery store or take our daughter down to the library or the children’s museum. Because we were so close to things this was possible. But if we lived out in the city, it’s not guaranteed there’d be sidewalks to all of the places he’d need to go. And the distance was a lot further, putting a lot of wear and tear on his wheelchair. So when we found our home within the city limits where public transportation was, he could use his power chair. Now, this may just be my husband’s mindset for how to get around, but he did not want to deal with the extra [00:05:00] complexity of the bus or paratransit. Similar to the story you just told Alexis. So he chose to drive his own chair when he could. But had we lived in the county where the public transit didn’t even go, he’d be stuck and not able to get places. All of that to say we do know quite a few people who utilize public transportation especially if they have cognitive abilities or seizures that don’t allow them to drive. It becomes part of their daily schedule to get them to work, to get their groceries, to visit friends. We know that many of their social workers or care team coordinators make sure they’re close to public transit to ensure they can be as independent as possible to take care of their daily tasks.
Rebecca: That all makes sense and I appreciate you highlighting that this is a multifactorial challenge, Sarah, like our disability status, our transportation needs and capabilities can and will change over time from a universal design standpoint, then creating more flexible, [00:06:00] adaptable transportation systems will serve us all, and all of our functional needs over time. A transit system that works for people who use wheelchairs is also going to be helpful for someone pushing a grocery cart. A transit system that conveys information about stops using sounds, symbols, words, and images is gonna be helpful for people who have hearing impairments, visual impairments, and people who don’t speak the language very well. But I could digress about this for the rest of the episode, which I don’t wanna do. I know Alexis wants to start this conversation from a very different place than I’m headed. So let’s get back on track. Alexis, you wanted to start by discussing ADA regulations right?
Alexis Girata: Yes. I thought it would be important to first highlight the ADA regulations so people know what is being required for these systems to accommodate for people with disabilities. So these include. Adequate and accessible rider information such as large print and having braille options, having adequate time to board and exit the [00:07:00] vehicle. Having assistance features such as lifts, ramps, and wheelchair straps that are fully functioning at all times. Properly trained operators and personnel. They have to allow service animals on the vehicle. And then specifically for fixed route providers such as buses, trains, and subways, they must also have these accommodations.
There must be seats marked as priority seating for people with disabilities, locations and devices to secure wheelchairs, a lift or ramp. So passengers who use wheelchairs or mobility devices can get to the right location on the vehicle. Stairs and doorways that have good lighting and slip resistant surfaces.
Enough space for wheelchairs to turn around and maneuver accessible handrails and vertical rails, and finally pull cords or stop buttons within reach for wheelchair users.
Sarah: Thanks, Alexis for that rundown. These are definitely good in [00:08:00] practice, but anyone out there who has used public transportation with any sort of physical or cognitive limitation may have some experiences to share with some of these things not being in place yet when the ability to get on, ride with ease and safety and get off at the stop you need is all accounted for, it’s honestly seen as a positive experience to get from place to place. We all love when that happens. Right? Now, I know we’re not going to be able to get into air travel today because wow, that is a beast in itself, but we are going to discuss some other common public transportation options.
So Alexis, where do you wanna start first?
Alexis Girata: Let’s start with Amtrak. This is a train system that goes throughout the US. When booking a trip, you can request assistance from a uniformed Amtrak staff or request the use of a station provided wheelchair to assist with getting to your train and the restrooms at the station. They will help you navigate [00:09:00] throughout the train station and ensure that you get to your platform safely.
Some stations also have mobile lifts, or they will provide a ramp to assist wheelchair users with accessing the train. On the website, they have also provided the maximum wheelchair dimensions available. These include 27.5 inches wide, 48 inches long, and two inches in foot clearance.
Some of you may not know this, but these are very similar to the standard manual wheelchair dimensions. These are wheelchairs that can be folded up and require someone to manually move it. However, some people require larger wheelchairs to accommodate for their stature and weight.
There are also many people like Scott who use power wheelchairs, which are usually much larger than these dimensions. Some trains may not be able to accommodate for those travelers making this option unavailable for them to use.
Sarah: Yes. I do think [00:10:00] Amtrak also has an option for longer trips, like across the country with overnight accommodations. We have some friends that have traveled, Amtrak and their wife is in a power chair. She has the ability to stand and move with help, but they really enjoyed the trip as it was so much easier to ride than to drive cross country from Virginia to California. I would advise anyone looking at this option to do a lot of research, like you were saying, Alexis, on what is available, and measure the equipment to see if things work for them. They would need to look at the height of the bed as well as what the bathroom looks like in addition to are they able to get to the food car, or would food have to be brought to them? Any little thing that may not work could make the trip even more difficult, especially if someone was staying overnight.
Alexis Girata: That is a great point, Sarah. It is always important to contact the agencies when booking a trip to ensure that they can meet your needs, and this includes all of the different public transportations that we’ll be talking about [00:11:00] today.
When doing research, I found that they also have programs available for people with low vision and people who are hard of hearing. The Be My Eyes app will connect you to a train agent that will assist with navigating the station, finding platforms and reading signs for people who are blind or have low vision.
This app is only available in 17 stations across the Northeast. Unfortunately, if you’re not in one of those stations, this is not an option. There’s also the audio frequency induction loop system that was designed for those who are hard of hearing. These are being used at ticket counters to better support those who use hearing aids or cochlear implants.
While it seems like Amtrak is moving towards the right directions with accessibility, these features are not available across the whole system and limits its usefulness for people with disabilities.
Rebecca: Agreed, Alexis. These are all impactful efforts, but this still requires a lot of research and prep on the part of the disability [00:12:00] community to figure out where these supports are in place and if they’re determining alternate travel plans. I don’t wanna be pessimistic because progress is progress, but I would be curious to know how these systems are really actually working for people.
Are the induction loops consistently functional? Is there always someone available via the Be My Eyes app? What happens when there are tech issues and these systems aren’t working? I hope these questions are being explored because then hopefully these supports can be built in elsewhere and continue to expand. So we’ve covered Amtrak, but Alexis, what do you want our listeners to know about other public transportation systems?
Alexis Girata: Next I wanted to talk about the underground rail stations and bus systems. This was a little harder to find information on because the systems differ widely between cities, so please again, check your local companies to find any accessibility informations from those stations. So first, for buses, there [00:13:00] are ADA regulations made by the Department of Transportation that states all new fixed route public transit buses be accessible and that supplementary payer transit services be provided for those individuals with disabilities who cannot use those fixed route bus systems.
These often include shuttle services that can provide that transportation. An example of one of these services is the metro access that serves in the Washington metropolitan area. Many of these shuttle services provide door to door services where they will help you from your home to the vehicle, and then help you from the vehicle to your destination.
These services are provided when a person with disabilities is unable to travel to or from a bus stop or rail station due to a disability, or if there aren’t any accessible pathways that are available. So this may be a better option for someone who has difficulty leaving their home or doesn’t have an [00:14:00] accessible route to get to the stop.
These are often services that you need to schedule with a provided pickup window. While this could be a good service for someone who has difficulty exiting their home, people have faced challenges with these alternative providers. I have heard stories of these services being late to pick someone up, making them miss their doctor’s appointment.
Or they have had difficulty ensuring that they go to the right destination. These are all things to consider when booking this service.
Sarah: Yes, I think the paratransit is a really great option, especially when people can’t get to the main pickup area at the station. But I have also had some interesting experiences with this when getting ready to go into OT school, I was helping an older gentleman get to his appointments in the northern Virginia DC area after he had had a stroke. When the paratransit options were full, they’d actually contract out those to accessible taxis, and they often weren’t well [00:15:00] versed in helping people get in and out of the vehicle. I am really glad that I was with this gentleman because he really struggled with his communication and often couldn’t advocate for himself well.
So I was really needed in that situation. And timing was also difficult to plan in bigger cities, having to consider consider traffic and other stops. So speaking of larger cities, what did you find out about different rail systems like the Metro and the Subway?
Alexis Girata: This was also really hard to come across any accessibility information, and most of my knowledge actually comes from using these systems myself, as I’m sure those of you who use the rail systems, know that the flooring by the tracks is often a different texture or they’ll have a different color or is bordered with bright lights.
These features are there to assist people with low vision and people who are hard of hearing. The different texture alerts [00:16:00] someone who has low vision or is blind, that they are reaching the end of the platform to prevent them from falling onto the tracks. At the metro station in the Washington metropolitan area, there are lights that line the edge of the platform that flash when a train is arriving.
This feature will alert someone who is deaf that their train will be arriving soon. There are also many stations that have now included elevators for wheelchair users to be able to navigate the station. While the metro or underground rail systems are supposed to have all the regulated, accommodating features, they’re not always available.
When I was researching information for this podcast, I found that in New York there are only 129 to 159 subway stations that were actually wheelchair accessible. I have included a link to view that list of those stations in the show notes. Even though these stations have [00:17:00] accessibility features, many people still face challenges with them because there are instances where the technology has malfunctioned and it can take a lot of time for it to get fixed. My friend told me a story on how she saw a man who uses a wheelchair had to ask two people to hold up half of his wheelchair on the escalator so he could leave the metro because the elevator was actually broken.
And this can be a frequent occurrence for many people. Where the elevator is broken and they either have to find a way out at the station or they would have to go to another stop, which then takes them farther away from their destination. Sarah, have you had to experience anything like this when you and Scott use public transportation?
Sarah: Oh, yes. Uh, actually in the DC Metro we have had to switch lines due to broken elevators and we did consider doing the same thing on an escalator, but decided against it, so [00:18:00] we had to find another line and switch over to it. We do have some friends that lived up in DC and they had an apartment right close to the Metro because his wife worked at the White House and her husband used a wheelchair and didn’t drive.
He found it super helpful to be able to join her in the city, but he also encountered many issues as well. So it’s great when it works and a headache when it doesn’t.
Rebecca: Definitely. I was actually speaking to a friend earlier this week who said almost the exact same thing this friend was sharing with me that the public transit in New York City specifically is rough. Elevators are constantly out of order, and even when they say they’re functioning, they’re not, and a lot of subway stops don’t even have elevators to begin with like Alexis said. My friend told me about a time when she had planned to go to a concert, left 45 minutes ahead of when she wanted to get there, and it ended up taking over two hours to get to the show because of how many elevators were out of order, and it really wasn’t that far away. [00:19:00] I feel like I’m being a little bit of a Debbie Downer in this episode, but unfortunately this is the reality of our public transport systems here. So let’s shift away from public to private, Alexis. What have you learned about ride sharing, for example?
Alexis Girata: Those were all really great points. Rebecca. Like you said, while in theory these support should be helpful and practice, there are many barriers that people are still facing. But anyways, back to your question, ride shares can be an option for many people to get to where they need to go. I focus primarily on sharing information about Uber and Lyft, as those are the most commonly used platforms, at least that I hear about.
For both platforms, drivers are supposed to accommodate riders who use walkers, folding wheelchairs, canes, and other mobility devices as long as they can fit inside the car without obstructing the driver’s view. They also have a wheelchair accessible vehicle or WAVs option that can fit a fixed frame wheelchair or [00:20:00] scooters into it.
Those vehicles are not always available at the time that is needed or in your area, so again, please check the app to see what is available near you. For Uber, the WAV drivers have to complete a certification course using a third party provider on assisting people with entering and exiting the vehicle.
Lyft also provides a short video on how to assist providers who use mobility devices, as well as provide tips for how to accommodate passengers who are hard of hearing or are blind or low vision. They have this video on their website and it provides some good information on asking the individual what you can do to help and focusing on listening to the passengers and their needs.
However, it actually doesn’t provide any training or examples on how to safely transfer someone into the car. So if you need assistance, that could be a little scary for some people if the person who’s helping them doesn’t have any actual [00:21:00] training. As I am not a driver for Lyft, I am unsure if there are more videos provided than the one that is attached to the website I have linked to in the show notes.
If there are no other trainings available, then the driver may not have the appropriate knowledge to safely transfer someone. Another service I want to talk about that Lyft provides is a Lyft Assisted Rides. This service sounds similar to the shuttle services that were mentioned earlier where the driver will provide door to door service.
It would be a good option available for someone who has difficulty exiting their home and may need more assistance with traveling. Both companies also have voiceover and talk back options on their apps for people with low vision.
Sarah: I honestly have never used these options myself, but I know that my husband would be a little hesitant of allowing someone to help him in and out of a vehicle with minimal training. Maybe that’s a good job for an [00:22:00] OT or PT out there looking for a new job direction to do some transfer training or videos for different people. I mean, honestly, knowing how to fold up a wheelchair or other pieces of mobility equipment can be a challenge if people have never had experience with them. There are so many different pieces of equipment and they move in so many different ways. I could see pieces getting left behind or even broken.
Rebecca: Totally. I remember in OT school being terrified to start moving and folding different pieces of people’s mobility equipment. In an ideal world, it’d be great if this were a skill that more people are trained and comfortable with, but it’s simply not our reality. Not to mention the fact that so many ride sharing vehicles aren’t even big enough to hold a wheelchair or large mobility aid in the back. They’re real people’s cars. So even if they’re big enough. That doesn’t necessarily mean that people’s equipment is gonna fit. I’ve had Uber and Lyft drivers who have a full trunk when I’m trying to get in the car with a suitcase to go [00:23:00] travel. So these things definitely do happen and can be barriers. I feel like we’ve touched on some really tough stuff today.
Alexis, do you have any resources you could share with our listeners to navigate these rough waters?
Alexis Girata: Yeah, first is Google Maps. It has a wheelchair accessible option when using the app that will provide steer free routes to your destination. There is also a wheelchair icon option available when looking up a location that when you press it, it’ll help you find the accessibility information for that location.
Again, same theme that we’ve seen throughout the whole day. This feature does not actually show the current conditions of how accessible that place is, so again, please make sure to contact that place directly. Google Maps also allows you to zoom in on locations to assist people with low vision.[00:24:00]
Another app that I found was called Access Now, which could be extremely helpful for some people. This app allows you to rate how accessible a place is worldwide by sharing reviews about that location. They also have a similar rating system to discover accessible parks and other outdoor spaces. So this could be a great resource for someone because the reviews are completed by real people who need the accessibility features themselves.
Sarah: Well, I haven’t even heard of some of these, so that’s awesome. Another thing that we’ve done is taken a good look on Google Maps, to check out if there are sidewalks from one location to the next, especially if we’re trying to get there without a vehicle. That again, unfortunately doesn’t share the condition of the sidewalk, but at least shows us if we will be on the road or not. I am happy to see more applications out there to provide more access resources, but it does seem that the general infrastructure and systems often require a workaround. It would [00:25:00] cost millions of dollars and lots of collaboration with strategic minds at the table to keep things in working order, and to redesign current systems to be more accessible for all people in different communities. I do love that some cities have accessibility sections on their websites to help people find accessible locations to visit as well. This does save people a lot of research when trying to dig through the details to see what might work for them. If not, it gives them a place to start. So what do you think, Alexis, what is your big takeaway from today’s episode?
Alexis Girata: Wow. We’ve gone over a lot of information today, but I think the biggest takeaway is that public transportation is extremely important for many people in their lives, and they depend on it to do the things they need to do to live. However, these systems are not always accommodating for people with disabilities while they have taken [00:26:00] some action into improving the systems, there is still a long way to go to ensure inclusivity.
Rebecca: Indeed there is. And the more conversations we have and the more disabled voices contributing to those conversations, the closer we get to making some real change. So thanks for bringing this topic to Good Fit Poor Fit, Alexis.
Sarah: Most definitely. So what do you think listeners, do you live in a particularly accessible city? Do you use public transportation a lot or have you found a certain system to work really well? Share with us in the comments maybe other cities out there can learn from what positive experiences you have had and what your community has implemented.
Rebecca: Yes, and thanks for listening. We’ll be back soon with one more episode with Alexis.
Sarah: Thanks for listening to Good Fit Poor Fit. If you want to learn more… first, find more episodes with transcripts and show notes at goodfitpoorfit.com. Don’t forget to subscribe! Second, check out our courses at [00:27:00] universaldesign.org.
We cover housing topics like advocacy, collaboration, home modification, universal design and task adaptations. Lastly, if you have questions or topics you’d like us to discuss, email us at [email protected]. Thanks for fitting us into your day.
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